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1969RS
09-21-2007, 03:35 PM
Ok, I hate to open this can of worms again, but I think we have given the smoke enough time to clear.

I was under the impression that when the magazine went away, we were going to see articles, features, etc on the web site. Kind of like an "on line" magazine. I think all we are getting is this forum.:confused:

So, when it comes time for me to renew my membership for WWC, what will I be getting for my membership dues? Access to an on line forum?

WWC events come to my area of the country maybe once every three to four years. Discounted entry fees to the shows is then not a value to me.

Discount on parts? I have yet to see that on any orders, plus the on line store is one of the worst to shop. I purchased some parts while at the Detroit Anniversary show and when they arrived, they had obviously been used. I sent them back following th proper procedure over three weeks ago and I have heard nothing. So that adds no value to my membership. :(

So why should I renew my membership to WWC?

Can someone bring us up to speed form the Ecklers side on how our club is progressing and how Ecklers is improving service to it's club members?

Thank you for your time.

MikeCio1
09-21-2007, 04:43 PM
I have noticed the "tech articles" appear about once a month.

Maybe there shouldnt be a paid membership. How about if your a paid participant in a show you automatically become a member that last 1 year from the date of the show. Because your most likley to attend the show you did the year before. Then when the next year comes around you just put you membership number in the system with the registration fee and bam you re-upped. Maybe even a discount to the following show since you a "loyal member"

Then that entitles you to your cataloge discount. And maybe how about some e-mails special or secret discounts. That maybe would encouage folks to come to the shows and pay to enter.

Or you could do a one time fee like the SSOA then your a member for life as long a you own a Camaro?

Just a thought...

1969RS
09-21-2007, 09:30 PM
Those are some good ideas Mike. The current situation will not work.
I compare to other car organizations I belong to like GoodGuys and NSRA.
I think the all mighty profit $$ drives what Ecklers does and keeping and growing members is left to the members with zero support from Ecklers.

If it were my company, I would assure the current members would have a magazine they could call their own. I would advertise in publications such as Super Chevy and Hi Performance Chevy. I would provide the State Reps with materials and tools you could use at local car shows to gain additional members. I would assure that Ecklers had a strong presence at most Super Chevy Shows.
I would learn from my competition such as Summit, Jegs, Year One, Classic Industries and understand why their internet business is so successful and build on that. I would make sure that the team I have working for me was happy and made them a part of decisions. I would take the time to thank each of the members for being loyal and helping the company grow. I would offer an open ear to listen to concerns and suggested improvements and implement the ones that make sense for the customers.

I am curious on how everyone else would run Ecklers. :rolleyes: I think I will start a thread and get everyone's feedback. Heck, if Ecklers won't ask us what we think, I will. Hopefully the "powers that be" on this forum will forward those ideas to Ecklers.

jimj
09-21-2007, 10:10 PM
Just one point (for now). I raised the question a short time ago regarding membership fees and what do you get for it.
The answer I got, but was never confirmed, is that since there isn't a magazine, there will not be a fee. I believe that those of us who are dedicated, will 'plug along', but I gotta say, we seem to be on shakey ground. Communication and Leadership are absolutely essential!

MikeCio1
09-22-2007, 10:44 AM
I agree they should be giving state and local reps tools to help start and build clubs. Maybe design some kind of starter club kit.

I wound up joining a local car club that was a Mustang club looking to expand its about 20 mustangs 1 camaro (me) 1 Firehawk, 1 "74 Duster. They are a good group of guys but I do take some abuse (all in fun) but get tired of it.
I did shut them up when we had a dyno day and me and the Firehawk guy spanked them all :p

The point is I expressed an interest to start a club here and couldnt get participants, I asked Thomas to send me a list from there catologe recipiants so I could do a mail out and he said he couldnt do it (privacy issue). He said he e-mailed them all or did something to have them contact me but no one ever did.

I guess the question is do they want to be a "club" or a retail outlet for parts that sponsors shows?
If they want to be both more effort should be put into the club part... Maybe think about one of my suggestions

jimj
09-22-2007, 04:11 PM
Something just occurred to me. A 'big deal' about the magazine (to me)was looking forward to getting it and devouring the pics and articles. Would it make any sense to have this kind of input into this site on a regular, say once a month, basis? In other words, it would be like a magazine on the web where, instead of once in a while getting this stuff here and there, one could look forward to seeing pics and articles, say in the middle of the month, for example. I think the structure may develop a following.
Wad ya think???

MikeCio1
09-22-2007, 05:20 PM
Something just occurred to me. A 'big deal' about the magazine (to me)was looking forward to getting it and devouring the pics and articles. Would it make any sense to have this kind of input into this site on a regular, say once a month, basis? In other words, it would be like a magazine on the web where, instead of once in a while getting this stuff here and there, one could look forward to seeing pics and articles, say in the middle of the month, for example. I think the structure may develop a following.
Wad ya think???


I thought thats what the original plan was

jimj
09-23-2007, 11:29 AM
Perhaps for those of us who don't know "what the original plan was", someone could tell us.

1969RS
09-24-2007, 11:23 AM
Jim, it was my understanding the web site would be an "on line" magazine with features about cars, tech tips, etc.
All I see now is this forum for us Camaro guys. :confused:

Camaro502z
09-24-2007, 12:32 PM
I'll try hard to be extremely nice in my comments to this topic. First the magazine issue. It's GONE, and in none of my comments did I say that our club forum would be more than what it currently is, A FORUM. As for renewing a membership, since we don't have a magazine, we don't charge for the forum site. No, I repeat No money will be required for our WCC membership at this time. Now should we later receive approval for a magazine then you can expect to be billed for the expense of the magazine.

This magazine is an extremely sore subject with many of us, and there is no reason to beat a dead horse. We must move forward, and believe me I went to great lengths obtain permission for this forum after the magazine was killed. Can it be better?, Yes it can, with comments and assistance from all of you. Am I an expert in forum sites, NO, I do the best I can with the information and help from my IT Department making sure that we continue to have a voice throughout the country. Sure there's other Camaro forum sites, but I felt it necessary for WCC to have our own venue.

I'll say this over and over, "This is your Club Site, and I'm here only to assist you. My plate is full, and I need everyone to continue using this site to keep it alive. Many of you may not know that this is the second time we had a club forum, the first time the forum was deactivated for lack of use.

Please don't hate the messenger, I tell it like it is!

1969RS
09-24-2007, 12:54 PM
So...I guess there will be no "on line" magazine? :D

Yes, it is a sore subject...with the members as well. I don't feel like a "member" if the only thing we have is a forum.

It is a good example of how Ecklers (not you) does not listen to it's members. The magazine was a big deal for the members, we were and still remain very vocal about it. We are told it's gone, get over it.

Thanks.:(

Camaro502z
09-24-2007, 01:16 PM
Rick I was surprised that the magazine lasted as long as it did without a boost in new memberships/subscribers. We tried everything, such as putting handouts with the Camaro orders advising new customers about our magazine, state reps attending shows trying to sign up new members, and it appears that Camaro owners for the most part don't want to participate in club events or sign up for magazine/ subscriptions. We were given two years for the magazine to show a profit, and during those two years, memberships and subscriptions continue to decline. Each issue talked about value, and how to be a part of our wonderful club, but no amount of talking, or articles could entice Camaro owners to sign up other Camaro owners. I won't site printing cost and the high cost of monthly mailings, but I saw those figures month after month and we were in the Red. A decision was made, and although I certainly was not happy with it, it's something that we must live with. I'm sorry!

jimj
09-24-2007, 07:08 PM
That is pretty much as I had expected, but it is good to hear it from 'the messenger'. My concern now is, what is going to happen to the WWC conventions. Assuming the mag. was the main source of info. for the what and where of the convention schedule, I fear for its survival.

Camlegends
09-24-2007, 07:38 PM
Pass the word! The International Convention, CamaroFest are great shows! Tell all of your Camaro friends to go to those conventions! Sorry for the sarcasm. What do you what will happen to the convention? The International in Maryland had 315 55-72 Chevys..and only 40 Camaros. Classic Chevy still has a magazine. If you want the magazine, a good start would be to get some good number of Camaros at these conventions. No Camaros show up, they don't need to bother. It's not Eckler's fault if the Camaros don't come...it's our fault. They certainly do enough to let it be known that the shows are open to Camaros.

Camlegends
09-24-2007, 07:40 PM
Oh, and if you get enough Camaros coming to the convention, maybe they'll sell more parts, and then maybe they'll give us a magazine back..if not, buy yourself a 55 Chevy and join a big Chevy club with a magzine...and lots of members.

1969RS
09-25-2007, 07:41 AM
You just put your finger on the reason the magazine failed. Ecklers expected the MAGAZINE to make a profit.

The magazine is just a tool to drive business in other areas. Do you think Wal-Mart or Target expects their TV ads to generate a profit? Nope. But the stores will generate a profit thru increase traffic in their stores.

In Ecklers business model, you will never generate a profit from the magazine alone. You cannot advertise anyone else in the magazine other than Ecklers, so generating outside income from advertising will not happen. The magazine should have been used as a tool to gain members. Why not offer to state reps 25 copies of two issues throughout the year to take to shows and place inside Camaros they see at the shows. Inside each free magazine you could have inserted a membership form and a recuitment letter from Ecklers. You cannot wait for the masses to come to you. You MUST go to the masses.
It would sure beat having the interior littered with other local show flyers.:D

You think Ecklers was disappointed with membership when the magazine was in circulation? Wait until after you have a year under your belt following the flushing of the magazine.

Ecklers provides me zero reason to maintain my membership in the organization. With NSRA changing their restrictions on car years and making it possible for me to participate, and the ever steady GoodGuys, I see much more value there than with Ecklers.

If it were not for the people like Sharon, Joe, Randy, Keith, and of course Thomas, I would have jumped the ship back in the spring when the mag went away.

fbody396
09-25-2007, 08:24 AM
There is no reason why we, the members of this forum, can't make our own "online magazine". We all have downloadable pictures of our cars and each of us has a story we can write about the restoration of it, how we came to buy it, what modifications were made, etc. This could all be posted right here and open to anyone who wants to read about it. What is stopping anyone from doing a tech article or just a simple "how-to" blurb to explain a neat short cut you've used. This is what CamaroWorld was all about. There is nothing better than pictures posted here from different car shows. If you have pictures of a show already posted online......then post the web address.
There are plenty of member driven opportunities here. We just have to use them and encourage others to use the site as well.
I miss the magazine as much as the rest of you. I still have most of my copies of past issues, unlike magazines like Super Chevy which is 90% advertisement that get tossed after one read. Maybe Eckler's could include pictures of show winners in its catalog! Hum????
Hope to see many of you at CamaroFest on October 13th.

Purple 92 SS
09-28-2007, 03:10 AM
ok, well ill post up..

Ive been in love with the camaro a relatively short amount of time compared to some of you . My love affair started in 98... a mere 9 years ago. I have been attending shows as a participant in my camaro since i purchased her, and in my car before the camaro as well. I also have been participating in a rather large regional event (sometimes national) called the F-body Gathering in Atlanta since 2005.

I tell you this, because the first time i heard about the WorldWide Camaro club was at the Fbody gathering in 2006. 2006. Think about that for a while. I Had been in the car show scene at least 10 years by then as a participant, and as a camaro owner it would make me at least 8 years in the show scene, and still hadnt heard of them until the Fbody Gathering (G10 for short). Yes, Ecklers was there. Yes, they had a little booth set up selling subscriptions to the club/ magazine. But it was just that. Selling subscriptions to the club/magazine. While i looked at the magazine samples they passed out, and Thomas offered to photo my 01 z for the magazine (which unfortunately the photos had sun wash out) I wasnt quite sure about joining the club because of the benifits of being part of the group. Being at the time understand, I had only late model F bodys, and the company (ecklers) tends to focus highly on the 67-69. SO, I held off on joining.

Between the year that passed from 06-07 I looked numerous times on the web site and thought about joining. It was anything but user friendly finding out how to join up, and then the multiple choices, werent clearly labeled as what each was. This didnt help me much in deciding to join, so everytime I had thought of it, it prooved too confusing and not worth the effort to try to figure out.

So then I started thinking with a few friends of mine about starting a local F-body Association. Things got more and more involved with the local association, and in order to make it be more legitimate, and also to bring all camaro enthusiasts together, I decided I'd try to become the State Representative of The World Wide Camaro Club. This way hopefully our association could be a local chapter of a national if not worldwide club. (the plan was also to have a pontiac conterpart of my position, and a pontiac counterpart of the world wide camaro club, but it doesnt seem that there is one) So I inquired to Thomas, and everyone here repeatedly about becoming a chapter of the WCC and also about becoming the SC State Rep.

Now, our little Association is up and starting to grow slowly. I am one of the state reps for SC. We have meets, we have an online forum as well, and a full fledged web site. At our local shows / cruise ins i pass out flyers for our association (see the image below) but when members ask me what the benifits of being the chapter of WCC is, I tell them that we are listed as a chapter on the www.worldwidecamaro.com's site. Well, that hasnt happened. I tell them that we get a 5% discount, well i havent heard of members using that, nor would i tell them how to get that discount, as theres no proof that we are a local chapter.

There's no structure, nothing to confirm it. No membership cards, no nothing to give the members. Sure, Ecklers sent me a case of Classic Chevy catalogs, and a case of camaro catalogs, which i hand out, but other than that, the members see no benifit. Forget the magazine, forget everything that was the club, we need to look at how to make the club anew.

Thomas, has beat the drum and tried to keep things going, some of his efforts have worked, some havent. What we need to do is see if we can still get Worldwide Camaro Club membership cards, small things like that. baby steps, start recruiting, start growing one by one. The 5th gen will be out in about a year now, things are going to get better, but only if we work for it. The club granted cannot be ran as a business.. at least, not yet.. maybe one day.. but not yet. Hell, even if its just 5 bux for a join fee to get a membership card to feel part of a structured group would be a start. The feeling of "belonging" goes a long way. Updating the site, on ecklers part, with State Chapter information, proactively growing, maybe adding photos of the state reps to the rep listing, things like that may help a lot. Get in with GM about a free membership to the WCC with the sale of every new Camaro. Have it be benificial to both companys, as well as the club.

Such is some of my thoughts..

Here's that flyer i was talking about.
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j205/mrithrande/SCFBA/SCFBABasicFlyer.jpg

Purple 92 SS
09-28-2007, 03:14 AM
another thing.. not being a ble to post stuff such as classifieds, is a bit too locked down. perhaps we should get some moderators here and unlock the forums and let the moderators deal with things.. instead of depending on just one IT person to do it all.

Camaro502z
09-28-2007, 03:09 PM
Your comments are noted. I wish the club was my full time job and that I could focus all my attention to WCC, but unfortunately this is just not the case. I've promised myself that after Camarofest, I would devote half of my day to club stuff, and I've already started a "Think Tank" listing of things to do.

As for posting classified ads, this was one of the concessions I had to make to get our forum up and running. You would not believe the JUNK that appeared on our previous site, Porn, people selling computers, baby chairs and just non car related stuff. This is not a dead issue, and I will run this by my boss requesting that the classified section be open for any club member to sell stuff. If I come back with my head on a platter will you give me a job?

jimj
09-30-2007, 05:13 PM
Re the selling & buying on this site. I see exactly what you are talking about Thomas on the CCI forum. Yet we do not see this on a couple of the other Camaro sites I frequent. I'm no genius when it comes to website structuring so I'm not sure why this is. (??)